Paula here. I am a Christian lesbian. I have taught theology and I take the Bible within its historical context. However, I have been having an online dialogue with Pastor Fred Barungi. It is hard to dialogue when a Christian pastor ignores the words of Jesus and continues to “judge” and “throw stones” at homosexuals. If an impartial alien were to read our dialogue, it would ask,
Alien: “How long have homosexuals existed on earth?”
Answer: “Since the Dawn of Civilisation. They are in every culture and on every continent.”
Alien: “God has allowed humans to progress in science and technology. Homosexuality is in the animal kingdom. Why are some Christians persecuting gays?”
Answer: “Well, a human wrote down his thoughts on homosexuality 3,500 years ago. The Book is called Leviticus. Homosexuality is called an abomination. There are other abominations, but Christians keep them. Such as not stoning a non-virgin on her wedding night, wearing two fabrics on one body, sleeping with a menstruating woman. Later this man would have started a fire with rubbing two flints together, and after his meal would retire to a cave or tent. He probably would have had two or more wives and even concubines. He had no concept of homosexuality accept that it could stop men from having sons necessary for any tribe’s survival.
Alien: “Has there been no scientific/medical statements on homosexuality?”
Answer: “Yes. In March 2016, psychiatrists from 182 nations wrote a declaration. It came from the World Psychiatric Association. It was written to all the nations at the United Nations and sent to world leaders. It stated clearly that homosexuality cannot be changed. If it cannot be changed, it is NOT a choice.
Alien: “Do ALL Christians deny this scientific knowledge? Do they still claim the lack of knowledge about homosexuals from 3,500 years ago?” Is there an agenda – money?
Answer: “No. Thankfully, the majority of Christians realise that the writer of Leviticus had no knowledge of heart transplants, television, radio, x-rays, planes, chemotherapy or even the fact that man could land on the moon. It is just fundamentalists that have a vision of God as a fearful entity whose wrath will damn people into eternal fire. Like Jesus, I dare to say, “Abba,” which Jesus used. “Abba” does not translate as “father” but rather ‘daddy.” Jesus used “Abba” to show the love relationship between God and his children. As for the agenda, most African rights-wing pastors are supported by American evangelicals – money is certainly part of the picture.
Alien: “Can I read this dialogue between Pastor Fred and yourself.?
Answer: My pleasure.
F = Fred. Written in red.
P = Paula. Answered in black.
In reply to Fred Barungi.
Hello here are your words, Pastor Fred, and here is my answers as a Christian. Peace of Christ to you.
F.I have a serious problem with you, sorry to say so. the scripture i quoted was talking about unnatural relations.
P.I have a problem with people like you that use the Bible to ‘stone’ others. John 1: God is love. All the Gospels: “Love one another.” it does not say pick and choose who to love.
F. The scripture i quoted was talking about unnatural relations.
P. When Paul speaks about ‘unnatural relations” in his letters, he is admonishing new Christians to stay away from pagan Temple orgies. The goddess would bless the ‘more the merrier’ indulges in sex – which is lust and no way resembles love or commitment to another human. Since the participants in these orgies would be 99 per cent straight – if they went with a same sex person – that would be ‘unnatural’ to their born natures.
F. The very first reason God created sex was to fulfill his purpose of producing and filling the world.(post creation). Post creation goes with intercourse between man and woman, not woman and woman or man and man. Secondly was enjoyment or pleasure between male and female. you have decided to exchange unnatural relations for the natural ones, this is a warning that you may bring judgement upon yourself and the next generations after you just like it was in Sodom and Gomorrah.
P. I do not follow a hateful God like you. I was created by God as a homosexual. I love my God and He/She delights in me. Naturally, we need to have straight couples to bring new persons into the world. My parents were straight. I agree that sexual acts are enjoyable. However, you miss the point of BONDING. Straights and gays do not have sex 24/7. What fills the life of solid loving relationships is the ‘ordinary’ ways that couples bond: shopping, planning holidays, a hug when things have gone wrong, commitment and sharing a life of values. Yes, we have morals and values – only you refer to writing that was written 3,500 years ago when making a fire was done with rubbing two sticks together. God has given humans new ideas and inventions – cures for cancer, open heart surgery, flying in planes and psychiatrists who state clearly that homosexuality cannot be changed and is therefore NOT a choice.
I suggest you read the Book of Daniel regarding Sodom and Gomorrah, where he states the cities were destroyed because the people were not helping the poor, supporting widows and were haughty in their ungodliness. And here is another article about S & G , A version of this story also appears in Judges (book 19). In both, sexual assault highlights the “wickedness” so often mis-attributed to homosexuality (47). In the Judges version, there is no mention (or hint) of homosexuality, further supporting the idea that the lesson was so important it bore repeating: meanness, cruelty, abuse, and hard-heartedness (all couched in inhospitality) are the true sins here; therefore, the story should not be used to support anti-gay rhetoric (47).
F. The UN you are trying to talk about has an agenda of destroying morals beginning from grass-root(children) and the later to the adults.
I do condemn having multiple sexual partners like the trump issue you spoke about, homosexuality too i do condemn it.
P. Sorry, Fred but the U.N was set up to support human rights (amongst other things). Thanks to the import of “Christianity” and its usage of a 3,500 year old text, homosexuals are imprisoned, beaten and murdered. This is not the way of Jesus. Just take out “Samaritan” and substitute “Gays” to learn what Jesus had to say to the lawyer about judging someone (Samaritan) as unclean, ungodly, etc. And may I remind you, that two religious leaders (with the ability to quote scripture walked by the injured man). Jesus in the Parable is saying that He will judge the heart. And you, Fred, have no right to judge the hearts of anyone on this planet. We have a judicial system for arresting incest perpetrators and pedophiles. Homosexuality is not a crime. It has been around since the Dawn of civilisation and in every country. May I inform you that Sally Ride was a lesbian who commanded a NASA space shuttle. NASA did not cast her out because of her sexual orientation.
F. The bible says that the wages of sin is death, but the gift of God is eternal life through Jesus Christ. Therefore GET SAVED OR ELSE YOU MAY DIE IN THAT SIN OF HOMOSEXUALITY. Let me give you an assurance that the god you are pledging allegiance to is an evil one-THE DEVIL.
P. St. Paul says the “wages of sin” is death – but, God can only judge the ‘sin.’ I knew when I was about 9 years old that I was attracted to women. I didn’t have a name for it. And in Genesis, God states that man (humans) should not be alone. Would you have me lock myself up in my room and never enjoy a kiss. hug and the feel of my loved one’s body beside me? You have no right to judge me or anyone else. Jesus warned, “Judge NOT or you will be judged!” I do not have a sin of homosexuality, I live my life in loving God, neighbour and loving myself. Jesus said you cannot serve two masters, You have set yourself up as Judge in defiance of the words of Jesus. Therefore, Fred, if you are not following Jesus – then you must be following the Angel of Death/Hate – Satan.
Finally, I would ask the alien to rule on the Dr. Laura Letter
In her radio show, Dr. Laura Schlesinger (a popular conservative radio talk show host in the USA) said that homosexuality is an abomination according to the Bible Leviticus 18:22, and cannot be condoned under any circumstance. The following response is an open letter to Dr. Laura, and was attributed to a James M. Kauffman, Ed. D.
Dear Dr. Laura:
Thank you for doing so much to educate people regarding God’s Law. I have learned a great deal from your show, and try to share that knowledge with as many people as I can. When someone tries to defend the homosexual lifestyle, for example, I simply remind them that Leviticus 18:22 clearly states it to be an abomination… end of debate.
I do need some advice from you, however, regarding some other elements of God’s Laws and how to follow them.
- Leviticus 25:44 states that I may possess slaves, both male and female, provided they are purchased from neighbouring nations. A friend of mine claims that this applies to Mexicans, but not Canadians. Can you clarify? Why can’t I own Canadians?
- I would like to sell my daughter into slavery, as sanctioned in Exodus 21:7. In this day and age, what do you think would be a fair price for her?
- I know that I am allowed no contact with a woman while she is in her period of menstrual unseemliness – Lev. 15: 19-24. The problem is how do I tell? I have tried asking, but most women take offence.
- When I burn a bull on the altar as a sacrifice, I know it creates a pleasing odor for the Lord – Lev. 1:9. The problem is my neighbours. They claim the odor is not pleasing to them. Should I smite them?
- I have a neighbour who insists on working on the Sabbath. Exodus 35:2. clearly states he should be put to death. Am I morally obligated to kill him myself, or should I ask the police to do it?
- A friend of mine feels that even though eating shellfish is an abomination – Lev. 11:10, it is a lesser abomination than homosexuality. I don’t agree. Can you settle this? Are there ‘degrees’ of abomination?
- Lev. 21:20 states that I may not approach the altar of God if I have a defect in my sight. I have to admit that I wear reading glasses. Does my vision have to be 20/20, or is there some wiggle-room here?
- Most of my male friends get their hair trimmed, including the hair around their temples, even though this is expressly forbidden by Lev. 19:27. How should they die?
- I know from Lev. 11:6-8 that touching the skin of a dead pig makes me unclean, but may I still play football if I wear gloves?
- My uncle has a farm. He violates Lev. 19:19 by planting two different crops in the same field, as does his wife by wearing garments made of two different kinds of thread (cotton/polyester blend). He also tends to curse and blaspheme a lot. Is it really necessary that we go to all the trouble of getting the whole town together to stone them? Lev. 24:10-16. Couldn’t we just burn them to death at a private family affair, like we do with people who sleep with their in-laws? (Lev. 20:14)
I know you have studied these things extensively and thus enjoy considerable expertise in such matters, so I am confident you can help.
Thank you again for reminding us that God’s word is eternal and unchanging.
Your adoring fan,
James M. Kauffman, Ed. D.
Professor Emeritus Dept. of Curriculum, Instruction, and Special Education
University of Virginia